Airbus' Presentation on Boeing 787 - Bad CI Ethics? - Competitive Intelligence2024-03-29T08:03:52Zhttps://competitiveintelligence.ning.com/forum/topics/airbus-presentation-on-boeing?feed=yes&xn_auth=noI believe America's Attorney…tag:competitiveintelligence.ning.com,2009-01-21:2036441:Comment:151442009-01-21T12:58:45.837ZAugust Jacksonhttps://competitiveintelligence.ning.com/profile/AugustJackson
I believe America's Attorney General in waiting was clear on this in his Senate hearings.<br />
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Complete aside and shameless promotion of a book I really like: To avoid being an instrument of said torture, take a look at Andrew Abela's <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Advanced-Presentations-Design-Creating-Communication/dp/0787996599/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1232542641&sr=8-1">"Advanced Presentations by Design: Creating Communication that Drives Action."</a>
I believe America's Attorney General in waiting was clear on this in his Senate hearings.<br />
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Complete aside and shameless promotion of a book I really like: To avoid being an instrument of said torture, take a look at Andrew Abela's <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Advanced-Presentations-Design-Creating-Communication/dp/0787996599/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1232542641&sr=8-1">"Advanced Presentations by Design: Creating Communication that Drives Action."</a> I've often wondered about thi…tag:competitiveintelligence.ning.com,2009-01-21:2036441:Comment:151292009-01-21T05:14:25.690ZMark Johnsonhttps://competitiveintelligence.ning.com/profile/MarkJohnson
I've often wondered about this, but would add one additional nasty wrinkle. It is easily possible to trap the domain name of the websurfer when they hit your website. Standard logs generally include this information.<br />
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What if you "trapped" your website to detect web surfers from COMPETITOR-X.COM, and reroute them to an entirely fake website FULL of disinformation.<br />
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First, it strikes me as unethical (no misrepresentation) but in addition, if gotten by the press, it could also result in ACTUAL…
I've often wondered about this, but would add one additional nasty wrinkle. It is easily possible to trap the domain name of the websurfer when they hit your website. Standard logs generally include this information.<br />
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What if you "trapped" your website to detect web surfers from COMPETITOR-X.COM, and reroute them to an entirely fake website FULL of disinformation.<br />
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First, it strikes me as unethical (no misrepresentation) but in addition, if gotten by the press, it could also result in ACTUAL incorrect stories being reported in the press and potentially affecting the stock price.<br />
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Interesting TECHNICAL problem, though...and a VERY fun mental exercise. I'm guessing this is where THE ONION got its start. We don't have chase scenes, s…tag:competitiveintelligence.ning.com,2009-01-21:2036441:Comment:151272009-01-21T05:01:15.856ZMark Johnsonhttps://competitiveintelligence.ning.com/profile/MarkJohnson
We don't have chase scenes, shootouts or (sadly) the stunning scantily clad blonde...<br />
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The problem is that we still technically "torture". The international human rights tribunal ruled that 100-slide powerpoint decks are the corporate equivalent of Waterboarding.<br />
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With tongue in cheek...<br />
Mark Johnson
We don't have chase scenes, shootouts or (sadly) the stunning scantily clad blonde...<br />
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The problem is that we still technically "torture". The international human rights tribunal ruled that 100-slide powerpoint decks are the corporate equivalent of Waterboarding.<br />
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With tongue in cheek...<br />
Mark Johnson Many of the comments hinge ar…tag:competitiveintelligence.ning.com,2009-01-19:2036441:Comment:149662009-01-19T01:35:59.919ZMark Johnsonhttps://competitiveintelligence.ning.com/profile/MarkJohnson
Many of the comments hinge around the idea of OSINT. I've always been an OSINT practitioner. The most "covert" thing I've ever done is accessing a competitor's website through their ANONYMOUS FTP. They don't seem to realize that FTP opens the whole server exactly the same as using Windows Explorer (only slight differences). The competitor is privately held, but post all their product brochures for download via FTP links. When you drill down, you find absolutely amazing detail. Most of it, of…
Many of the comments hinge around the idea of OSINT. I've always been an OSINT practitioner. The most "covert" thing I've ever done is accessing a competitor's website through their ANONYMOUS FTP. They don't seem to realize that FTP opens the whole server exactly the same as using Windows Explorer (only slight differences). The competitor is privately held, but post all their product brochures for download via FTP links. When you drill down, you find absolutely amazing detail. Most of it, of course, of no use at all. But it made it very possible to write some astoundingly detailed profiles. I would have had difficulty replicating the same detail on my OWN company. I never found a document bearing "proprietary" designation.<br />
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Sometimes a lot of effort is given to obtaining "the secret stuff". This is often the data that places you at jeopardy for lawsuit, prosecution, code of business conduct violation, etc. Before going after the "secret stuff" you need to ask several questions.<br />
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1. Do I even need it for anything of importance?<br />
2. What would the company be able to do with it? Sometimes using it could get you sued anyway.<br />
3. Is there a different (legitimate) way of getting the info?<br />
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Frequently folks go after the questionably secret data just because of the "cool" factor, even though it's of questionable use, and probably wouldn't convey any real competitive advantage anyway.<br />
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This is similar to the controversy among some interrogators. There's a new book out indicating that more conventional interrogation techniques can be more effective than aggressive and/or abusive approaches (without entering the torture debate). <a href="http://www.amazon.com/How-Break-Terrorist-Interrogators-Brutality/dp/1416573151/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1232328583&sr=1-8"><b>How to Break a Terrorist: The U.S. Interrogators Who Used Brains, Not Brutality, to Take Down the Deadliest Man in Iraq (Hardcover)</b></a><br />
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The oft-repeated axiom that ethical methods are more effective proves true in most instances. The presentation does not see…tag:competitiveintelligence.ning.com,2009-01-15:2036441:Comment:147252009-01-15T09:22:20.027ZPieter Smithhttps://competitiveintelligence.ning.com/profile/PieterSmith
The presentation does not seem to be available any longer on the flightblogger web site, but an alternative location may be found by searching on Google for: Airbus 787 Lessons learnt filetype:pdf<br />
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Regards<br />
Pieter Smith
The presentation does not seem to be available any longer on the flightblogger web site, but an alternative location may be found by searching on Google for: Airbus 787 Lessons learnt filetype:pdf<br />
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Regards<br />
Pieter Smith Hi Everyone,
Am new to this…tag:competitiveintelligence.ning.com,2008-12-30:2036441:Comment:136842008-12-30T01:06:18.719ZNimalanhttps://competitiveintelligence.ning.com/profile/Nimalan
Hi Everyone,<br />
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Am new to this forum and going through this website I find am pretty much a beginner in CI (2 years in CI prior to which I never knew a formal discipline called CI existed).<br />
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I would agree with Chris Hote on this topic.<br />
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I work for a firm that specializes in CI for clients and have come across numerous instances of companies putting out "confidential" presentations on the internet with false or misleading information. This is pretty much common with those big market leaders (who…
Hi Everyone,<br />
<br />
Am new to this forum and going through this website I find am pretty much a beginner in CI (2 years in CI prior to which I never knew a formal discipline called CI existed).<br />
<br />
I would agree with Chris Hote on this topic.<br />
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I work for a firm that specializes in CI for clients and have come across numerous instances of companies putting out "confidential" presentations on the internet with false or misleading information. This is pretty much common with those big market leaders (who are sure to be the target of multiple CI studies). So much so that we have come to believe that such easily available "confidential" information need not be correct information. Boeing's stoic silence on this issue further strengthens this argument. What say?<br />
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Nimalan Hi Arthur,
I wonder whether…tag:competitiveintelligence.ning.com,2008-12-26:2036441:Comment:135592008-12-26T15:29:40.767ZChris Hotehttps://competitiveintelligence.ning.com/profile/ChrisHote
Hi Arthur,<br />
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I wonder whether Boeing could have put those "confidential" pieces of information for the purpose of counter intelligence. In other words, it would not take a lot of work to disclose fake "confidential" information: releasing old and buggy versions of documents.<br />
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What do you think?<br />
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Chris.
Hi Arthur,<br />
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I wonder whether Boeing could have put those "confidential" pieces of information for the purpose of counter intelligence. In other words, it would not take a lot of work to disclose fake "confidential" information: releasing old and buggy versions of documents.<br />
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What do you think?<br />
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Chris. I find the comments on this a…tag:competitiveintelligence.ning.com,2008-12-25:2036441:Comment:135392008-12-25T11:49:41.189ZArthur Weisshttps://competitiveintelligence.ning.com/profile/ArthurWeiss
I find the comments on this amusing, as in my <a href="http://www.marketing-intelligence.co.uk/services/training.htm">competitive intelligence training courses</a> i've long used Boeing as an example of what i call a "<i>stupid company</i>" for the quantity of proprietary and confidential information that they routinely placed online. I still have slides I used to show how such information could be found on Boeing's web-site using standard advanced web search techniques.<br />
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Anybody who knew how…
I find the comments on this amusing, as in my <a href="http://www.marketing-intelligence.co.uk/services/training.htm">competitive intelligence training courses</a> i've long used Boeing as an example of what i call a "<i>stupid company</i>" for the quantity of proprietary and confidential information that they routinely placed online. I still have slides I used to show how such information could be found on Boeing's web-site using standard advanced web search techniques.<br />
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Anybody who knew how to search would have found a wealth of information that really should have been kept confidential on Boeing's public web-pages. Over time, most of this has been removed but a number of years ago it included material that was labeled "<i>confidential</i>". Boeing is now more astute about the information and although i'm sure it's still there, it's now password protected so ethically it's off-limits.<br />
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The key thing here is the definition of the word "confidential". If it's put up on a public web-site by the company itself it loses its confidentiality. A web-site is part of the advertising / PR effort of a company and so such material is by definition, public domain. In contrast, had the information only surfaced as a result of a leak to a blog site then Boeing could have had an argument that the information was confidential. This would have then have had to be decided by the courts, and using such data would depend on more factors (e.g. how long the leaked information was available before it was removed or what attempts had been taken to protect it). A related question: If you to…tag:competitiveintelligence.ning.com,2008-12-17:2036441:Comment:133542008-12-17T17:03:36.392ZEric Garlandhttps://competitiveintelligence.ning.com/profile/EricGarland
A related question: If you took away the special effects, cinematography, bevy of international minxes, and Daniel Craig, would anyone care about James Bond?<br />
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When you think about it, the nature of intelligence collection and analysis is SO different than it was in the 1960s, those films have almost no connection to reality. Yet it remains the dominant image of clandestine intelligence - which is by nature the public's view of our job.<br />
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Maybe if we cut it out with the Matt Damon/Pierce…
A related question: If you took away the special effects, cinematography, bevy of international minxes, and Daniel Craig, would anyone care about James Bond?<br />
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When you think about it, the nature of intelligence collection and analysis is SO different than it was in the 1960s, those films have almost no connection to reality. Yet it remains the dominant image of clandestine intelligence - which is by nature the public's view of our job.<br />
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Maybe if we cut it out with the Matt Damon/Pierce Brosnan/George Clooney stuff, we could spread the message that intelligence and analysis is actually rigorous, intellectual and a little "boring."<br />
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But we might actually produce some decent assessments of the world as it is. Thanks for this example, Eric…tag:competitiveintelligence.ning.com,2008-12-17:2036441:Comment:133452008-12-17T15:05:33.545ZAugust Jacksonhttps://competitiveintelligence.ning.com/profile/AugustJackson
Thanks for this example, Eric.<br />
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OSINT is an important part of any intelligence collection process, and it still surprises me the degree to which OSINT advocates are considered the tin-foil hat contingent of the government intelligence community. The cynic in me thinks part of the resistance to OSINT in the intelligence world is the maintenance of an artificial scarcity. If I tell you that only a high-priced human collector deployed to exotic and sexy locations will work then I protect my salary…
Thanks for this example, Eric.<br />
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OSINT is an important part of any intelligence collection process, and it still surprises me the degree to which OSINT advocates are considered the tin-foil hat contingent of the government intelligence community. The cynic in me thinks part of the resistance to OSINT in the intelligence world is the maintenance of an artificial scarcity. If I tell you that only a high-priced human collector deployed to exotic and sexy locations will work then I protect my salary and lifestyle. Throw in a requirement for only "cleared" personnel to conduct or see the output of this collection and I've guaranteed high-paying jobs for me and my buddies, because we're also the determinants of who is and who is not "clearable." Clearable: conformist white guys. Not clearable: foreigners, minorities, hippies, women (they're on the bubble) and anybody who is going to question or challenge established orthodoxy.<br />
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OSINT is a valuable input to other -INT practices (such as HUMINT). Why wouldn't you look to see if your human source has a MySpace page, LinkedIn profile, blog or resume on Monster for potential background information before you approach him or her? It's inexpensive, comparatively quick and less prone to misinformation because of the transparency of public information. If I try to distribute misinformation it doesn't take too long for a competitor, academic or technical expert to call me out on it in another public forum.<br />
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OSINT is also a valuable check on human collection. Technical intelligence is a valuable way to quickly determine an appropriate range of responses as well as identify any disagreements or schisms that might exist in a subject domain. Is there a consensus? If there are schisms what is the nature and basis for those differences of opinion? Is there any upper and lower limit to valid answers from human sources? If a human source tells me that the round-trip delay requires data to travel faster than the speed of light I know something is wrong.<br />
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And, Eric, I think your previous comment about looking more broadly than competitors (customers, markets, technology, etc.) is critical in today's fast changing world. I'm a strong advocate for looking more broadly at competitors than the companies that look just like you. A competitor is any entity that can fulfill the same fundamental value for your customer. That might be a small start-up (even if you're a Fortune 50 company), that might be a non-profit or open source entity-- it might even be the customer themselves. Current suppliers are one value-add innovation away from entering your business, too.<br />
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Analysis really is the basis for delivering value, too. Aric Johnson has talked and written about "asymmetrical analysis," and I think that's fertile ground for improving the competitive intelligence practice and delivering higher value to our customers.