The role of SURVEILLANCE in CI - Competitive Intelligence2024-03-29T02:16:53Zhttps://competitiveintelligence.ning.com/forum/topics/the-role-of-surveillance-in-ci?commentId=2036441%3AComment%3A38800&feed=yes&xn_auth=noIn reply to Matthew Jones:
I…tag:competitiveintelligence.ning.com,2010-12-04:2036441:Comment:389042010-12-04T21:10:23.109ZPete DiGrizhttps://competitiveintelligence.ning.com/profile/PeteDiGriz
In reply to Matthew Jones:<br></br>
I believe your posting was not precise on a couple points. In the United States the "stalking law" does pose some obstacles to surveillance, but it is NOT illegal to conduct surveillance on another person, and a "contract" does not make it legal. Generally surveillance conflicts with "stalking" laws if it is done by: "repeatedly follow[ing]... places under surveillance...another person...in a manner that would cause a reasonable person to suffer serious emotional…
In reply to Matthew Jones:<br/>
I believe your posting was not precise on a couple points. In the United States the "stalking law" does pose some obstacles to surveillance, but it is NOT illegal to conduct surveillance on another person, and a "contract" does not make it legal. Generally surveillance conflicts with "stalking" laws if it is done by: "repeatedly follow[ing]... places under surveillance...another person...in a manner that would cause a reasonable person to suffer serious emotional distress." The crime may be a felony is the subject/rabbit has a protection order against your client. So an agent/investigators rule should include: 1) no contact of any kind with the subject/rabbit 2) don't do anything that might cause "emotional distress" and 3) make sure your subject doesn't have a restraining/protection order against your client.<br/>
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The other law an investigator needs to be aware of is the local/state "Harassment" statute. In some states it is illegal to "follow someone in a public place" BUT ONLY if they do this with the intent to harass, annoy or alarm that person. The intent of investigative agents is to gather information, not specifically to harass.<br/>
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But I would still submit that following another individual in public is a legitimate practice of gathering information. However, Matt's posting brings to light some basic training issues for all new investigators before they begin work.<br/>
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Pete DiGriz I have rarely disagreed with…tag:competitiveintelligence.ning.com,2010-11-30:2036441:Comment:388002010-11-30T15:35:46.708ZTadeusz Lemańczykhttps://competitiveintelligence.ning.com/profile/TadeuszLemanczyk
I have rarely disagreed with you, Vivek: hence enjoy that comment of mine ( <a href="http://fedcba.ning.com/group/bs/forum/topics/much-of-a-sense-of-humor-is" target="_blank">http://fedcba.ning.com/group/bs/forum/topics/much-of-a-sense-of-humor-is</a> ). :-)
I have rarely disagreed with you, Vivek: hence enjoy that comment of mine ( <a href="http://fedcba.ning.com/group/bs/forum/topics/much-of-a-sense-of-humor-is" target="_blank">http://fedcba.ning.com/group/bs/forum/topics/much-of-a-sense-of-humor-is</a> ). :-) Tad Sir,
Surveillance is tec…tag:competitiveintelligence.ning.com,2010-11-30:2036441:Comment:387992010-11-30T14:45:32.998ZVivek Raghuvanshihttps://competitiveintelligence.ning.com/profile/VivekRaghuvanshi
Tad Sir,<br />
<br />
Surveillance is technically a part of Counter Intelligence for the State as well as in Competitive Intelligence.<br />
<br />
Surveillance is legal in Competitive Intelligence from the angle of Counter Intelligence.
Tad Sir,<br />
<br />
Surveillance is technically a part of Counter Intelligence for the State as well as in Competitive Intelligence.<br />
<br />
Surveillance is legal in Competitive Intelligence from the angle of Counter Intelligence. To "leave the 007 stuff out o…tag:competitiveintelligence.ning.com,2010-11-27:2036441:Comment:387132010-11-27T11:22:03.470ZTadeusz Lemańczykhttps://competitiveintelligence.ning.com/profile/TadeuszLemanczyk
To "<i>leave the 007 stuff out of it</i>"? Never! ;-)<br />
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Best,<br />
Tad<br />
<a href="http://fedcba.ning.com/" target="_blank">http://fedcba.ning.com/</a>
To "<i>leave the 007 stuff out of it</i>"? Never! ;-)<br />
<br />
Best,<br />
Tad<br />
<a href="http://fedcba.ning.com/" target="_blank">http://fedcba.ning.com/</a> Hello to all,
Well I must sa…tag:competitiveintelligence.ning.com,2010-11-27:2036441:Comment:387112010-11-27T10:34:21.279ZMatthew Joneshttps://competitiveintelligence.ning.com/profile/MatthewJones
Hello to all,<br />
<br />
Well I must say I believe I jumped in a little late in this conversation, but I am glad I did. I personal work for a private investigation agency in Virginia, where I am certified as a private investigator for the Department of Justice. I can tell you from my experience, training, and knowledge that it is illegal to conduct surveillance one anyone with out it being part of a contract for vairous reasons- such as divorce, criminal, or civil. To use the word surveillance- these…
Hello to all,<br />
<br />
Well I must say I believe I jumped in a little late in this conversation, but I am glad I did. I personal work for a private investigation agency in Virginia, where I am certified as a private investigator for the Department of Justice. I can tell you from my experience, training, and knowledge that it is illegal to conduct surveillance one anyone with out it being part of a contract for vairous reasons- such as divorce, criminal, or civil. To use the word surveillance- these days can mean many different things to many different people. I personal have conducted many types of operation CI or BI covertly with out breaking the law. In VA- there is a stalking law. However one can avoid this by contracting out if it comes to that- but I will say one who takes part in the surveillance better be good at it or just not do it at all because it spells JAIL TIME if caught doing it illegaly. At the same time do not foreget about our investigative reporters who go undercover or follow possible leads.. I agree with everyones points here and from my line of work all I can say is leave the following executives to their houses and such out of the surveillance. There is nothing wrong with posing as someone else and walking into a company office to gather information. Just leave the 007 stuff out of it and all should be fine<br />
<br />
Best,<br />
Matt Jones In support of David's respons…tag:competitiveintelligence.ning.com,2010-06-03:2036441:Comment:334802010-06-03T14:59:21.640ZMichael Foxhttps://competitiveintelligence.ning.com/profile/MichaelFox
In support of David's response - the term "surveillance" is another of those terms attached to CI that may have espionage-related connotations. It pays to define the term clearly per the context used. In this case, monitoring the activities of a company, market, influencers etc. is, in my book, the CI version of surveillance. I fear that others may envision the use of super telephoto lenses and covert recording devices, neither of which comes under my remit.
In support of David's response - the term "surveillance" is another of those terms attached to CI that may have espionage-related connotations. It pays to define the term clearly per the context used. In this case, monitoring the activities of a company, market, influencers etc. is, in my book, the CI version of surveillance. I fear that others may envision the use of super telephoto lenses and covert recording devices, neither of which comes under my remit. Hi Monica. I think you're com…tag:competitiveintelligence.ning.com,2010-06-02:2036441:Comment:334582010-06-02T18:43:36.568ZPete DiGrizhttps://competitiveintelligence.ning.com/profile/PeteDiGriz
Hi Monica. I think you're comments are right on, surveillance to gather CI is rather a wasted effort. But I also believe that it's a wasted effort because it's not directed correctly, not supervised properly, team members not briefed on Critical Information Requirements to gather, and poor overall training. And that's besides the expense. I believe it can gather good useful information, and that surveillance is an under-used tool. But i have a bias for surveillance.<br />
The "stigma" of using…
Hi Monica. I think you're comments are right on, surveillance to gather CI is rather a wasted effort. But I also believe that it's a wasted effort because it's not directed correctly, not supervised properly, team members not briefed on Critical Information Requirements to gather, and poor overall training. And that's besides the expense. I believe it can gather good useful information, and that surveillance is an under-used tool. But i have a bias for surveillance.<br />
The "stigma" of using surveillance aside, you're right when you say it must be absolutely covert (actually clandestine) to generate success. The company we hired (circa 1993) received a lot of good press for it's CI work in legal and business magazines, but they sub-contracted the surveillance, and that almost ensured it would fail. Surveillance is a perishable skill and just hiring any group of unemployed PI's isn't going to suffice. Hi Tad and Pete
Hmm, "accept…tag:competitiveintelligence.ning.com,2010-06-02:2036441:Comment:334572010-06-02T16:52:51.674Zmonica nixonhttps://competitiveintelligence.ning.com/profile/monicanixon32
Hi Tad and Pete<br />
<br />
Hmm, "acceptance." In the business world, I don't think executives are going to agree to surveillance. Further, by asking if they agree to surveillance, whether they agree or not, you have given them the heads up that its a possibility and they will likely then alter their behavior and be more careful, thereby thwarting the surveillance effort. The point here I think is that in the business world, it's got to be covert for it to have any success.<br />
<br />
As to Pete's commentary- I…
Hi Tad and Pete<br />
<br />
Hmm, "acceptance." In the business world, I don't think executives are going to agree to surveillance. Further, by asking if they agree to surveillance, whether they agree or not, you have given them the heads up that its a possibility and they will likely then alter their behavior and be more careful, thereby thwarting the surveillance effort. The point here I think is that in the business world, it's got to be covert for it to have any success.<br />
<br />
As to Pete's commentary- I agree, it isn't used that often in my experience. When I have seen it used, it is often "reactive"-ie; after the damage has been done, or when something is absolutely imminent; which then brings up the issue of why didn't CI capture the general trend in the first place earlier and give a warning so more proactive handling of the situation could have ensued? I don't know, but I tend to believe that surveillance to gather CI is rather a waste; IF CI analysts are watching the competitors they follow closely and picking up on the signals, surveillance shouldn't be necessary. Surveillance is rarely used.…tag:competitiveintelligence.ning.com,2010-06-02:2036441:Comment:334552010-06-02T14:36:43.559ZPete DiGrizhttps://competitiveintelligence.ning.com/profile/PeteDiGriz
Surveillance is rarely used. I worked for a large rubber belt manufacturing company--which makes automobile timing and fan belts, motorcycle drive belts, and industrial belts. A salesman in one region learned that executives from a competing belt manufacturer were coming to the US, he in turn reported this to HQ.<br />
The decision was approved to hire surveillance and follow the executives. A "leading" national firm was hired. Little was learned. This was possibly due to poor briefings or…
Surveillance is rarely used. I worked for a large rubber belt manufacturing company--which makes automobile timing and fan belts, motorcycle drive belts, and industrial belts. A salesman in one region learned that executives from a competing belt manufacturer were coming to the US, he in turn reported this to HQ.<br />
The decision was approved to hire surveillance and follow the executives. A "leading" national firm was hired. Little was learned. This was possibly due to poor briefings or information requirements given to the surveillance company. The surveillance team entirely missed a meeting between city planners and the executives for a new manufacturing facility. This information was learned the following day in the media when another salesman sent HQ a newspaper article. However, the locations of proposed factory sites were determined. The local attorneys and architects/construction consultants for the competitors were identified.<br />
I think most business which hire surveillance do not get good results. Even when detailed results are provided, I think little information is actionable.<br />
The surveillance had the opportunity to provide useful information but the relationship between the company and the surveillance providers, in this instance, was not well established. I'd like to thank you, Monica…tag:competitiveintelligence.ning.com,2010-06-02:2036441:Comment:334432010-06-02T04:14:24.009ZTadeusz Lemańczykhttps://competitiveintelligence.ning.com/profile/TadeuszLemanczyk
I'd like to thank you, Monica, for your comment. I didn't define the word "<i>surveillance</i>" because I suspected that many various aspects of it were present in Competition Intelligence. I think the most important problem here is acceptance. The CI professionals just like any other professionals keeping people under surveillance don't ask those people for acceptance. For example, do you think that each of the customers who appear in that remarkable scene (…
I'd like to thank you, Monica, for your comment. I didn't define the word "<i>surveillance</i>" because I suspected that many various aspects of it were present in Competition Intelligence. I think the most important problem here is acceptance. The CI professionals just like any other professionals keeping people under surveillance don't ask those people for acceptance. For example, do you think that each of the customers who appear in that remarkable scene ( <a href="http://competitiveintelligence.ning.com/video/surveillance-1" target="_blank">http://competitiveintelligence.ning.com/video/surveillance-1</a> ) in the movie <i>Double Exposure</i> ( <a href="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0069903/" target="_blank">http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0069903/</a> ) would give Dr. Bart Keppel his/her acceptance?